Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
Imho the description of an “improvement in dynamics” doesn’t really do it justice. It scales differently, it’s difficult to describe, I think you just need to hear it..
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I've learned to never underestimate Emile and his daily pearls. He has been spot on in every Taiko project over the past 3 years. I am sure that had there not been supply chain issues we would all be sitting in our rooms gasping at how good the switch is and let's not forget the upcoming Router and BPS. IIRC these were to have been introduced this past year but I am sure Emile found out that with supply chain issues, copper has become a precious commodity. All good things come to he who waits and there are many hundreds of Taiko users who are all waiting with bated breath for this year's new products to roll out
It's really excited to know that the TACDA PCIe card will be available for non-Extreme owners. Any chance that the XDMS player software will be included as a bundle? It would be perfect as XDMS can make the full use of all unique features of the TACDA and the features of the BD34301EKV DAC chip. It should also minimise the support costs due to compatibility issues with other players.
Are the physical dimensions of the PCIe card available? I assume it is a full height PCI card.
Are the physical dimensions of the PCIe card available? I assume it is a full height PCI card.
XDMS will be exclusive to Extreme owners for the foreseeable future. We are probably looking at 2 years before we could even consider making it available to a wider audience.
Right now it's a full height card, about 4*8".
mmm, low-profile would be nice of course, if it's at all possible...
that would reach a wider audience. looking at myself I would probably buy, but I highly doubt I would build a completely new server to be able to fit a full size card.
mmm, low-profile would be nice of course, if it's at all possible...
Unfortunately that’s not possible, it’s completely stuffed on both sides.
Taiko have already announced that they’re included a full-function DAC on their upcoming PCIe TACDA/TACDD card. Emile said they chose the Rohm because in his opinion it is the best sounding of all the off-the-shelf DAC chips.
Here are some product info, data sheets and comprehensive applications publication from Rohm:
https://www.mouser.com/pdfDocs/ROHM_BD34301EKV_PR.pdf
https://www.mouser.com/new/rohm-semiconductor/rohm-bd34301ekv-mus-ic-series-dac/
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/348/bd34301ekv_e-2064323.pdf
The Rohm 34301EKV DAC chipset is being used in the Luxman D10X CD/SACD player to excellent reviews on-line.
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/luxman-d-10x-cd-sacd-player-and-dac/
There is also a WBF thread started by an owner of the Luxman:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/my-own-experience-with-luxman-d10x.34196/
I am very interested in hearing just how this works out in practice when the cards begin shipping. Given that it is a Taiko product and will be installed in the constantly evolving no-compromise Taiko Extreme chassis (with world-class power supply), it should be a very good sounding DAC.
Steve Z
Here are some product info, data sheets and comprehensive applications publication from Rohm:
https://www.mouser.com/pdfDocs/ROHM_BD34301EKV_PR.pdf
https://www.mouser.com/new/rohm-semiconductor/rohm-bd34301ekv-mus-ic-series-dac/
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/348/bd34301ekv_e-2064323.pdf
The Rohm 34301EKV DAC chipset is being used in the Luxman D10X CD/SACD player to excellent reviews on-line.
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/luxman-d-10x-cd-sacd-player-and-dac/
There is also a WBF thread started by an owner of the Luxman:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/my-own-experience-with-luxman-d10x.34196/
I am very interested in hearing just how this works out in practice when the cards begin shipping. Given that it is a Taiko product and will be installed in the constantly evolving no-compromise Taiko Extreme chassis (with world-class power supply), it should be a very good sounding DAC.
Steve Z
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It's also interesting to read Rohm's white paper on the their DAC chip:
One must be extremely wary of claims from DAC manufacturers about S/N ratios. Pay particular attention to the linear *decrease* in S/N ratio as volume levels decrease. Pay *no* attention to any claim about S/N ratio at 0 dB. That tells you virtually nothing. On a typical recording of 60 minutes, say, of symphonic or chamber music, 0 dB will never be reached. 99% of the time, input levels are far below maximum levels, and consequently S/N ratios will be far less than the mythical 0dB figure.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Well if Emile could put a few tubes in that PCIe card to make the DAC sound like my Horizon I might jump but I’m on board for everything else especially Emile’s new connection that Lampi, MSB and TotalDAC seem committed to
To explain this more clearly, quoting the DAC S/N ratio at 0 dB makes about as much sense as saying the height of a person is the US is 7.5 feet or the weight of a person is 350 pounds. Of course, you might find some individual in the US who weighs 350 pounds or who is 7.5 feet tall. That’s meaningless statistically. Instead you might more sensibly ask: what’s the *average* height and weight of a person in the US? That’s typically 5 ft 8 inches and 175 pounds. Similarly, one can ask what’s the average S/N ratio of a DAC over some ensemble of types of music, keeping in mind that the intensity of music is a random variable that fluctuates a lot.
Mathematically, we write this as E(X) = weighted sum over all values of X, where the weight is the *probability* of X taking on some specific value X=x. If X takes on two values, say 1 and 2, each with the same probability of 1/2, we end up with E(X) = 1.5, the sample mean. So, a far more meaningful spec is average S/N ratio, but that’s harder to quote because it depends on the variation of signal values.
Note also we are told it is a “32-bit” DAC. Again, a meaningless number. A true 32-bit DAC will achieve 32*6 = 192 dB S/N ratio! No DAC in the world can come anywhere close. The early vintage 1990 top Sony ES 16-bit CD players could approach 96 dB S/N ratios, a truly impressive spec. 24-bit DACs are supposed to achieve 24*6 = 144 dB. None do. Most get to around 120 dB. As for “32-bit“ DACs, that’s just a lot of marketing hokey. I’m not singling out this particular vendor. They are all guilty of “grade inflation“. I’ve long ago given up hope that digital music equipment manufacturers will report truthful specs.
Mathematically, we write this as E(X) = weighted sum over all values of X, where the weight is the *probability* of X taking on some specific value X=x. If X takes on two values, say 1 and 2, each with the same probability of 1/2, we end up with E(X) = 1.5, the sample mean. So, a far more meaningful spec is average S/N ratio, but that’s harder to quote because it depends on the variation of signal values.
Note also we are told it is a “32-bit” DAC. Again, a meaningless number. A true 32-bit DAC will achieve 32*6 = 192 dB S/N ratio! No DAC in the world can come anywhere close. The early vintage 1990 top Sony ES 16-bit CD players could approach 96 dB S/N ratios, a truly impressive spec. 24-bit DACs are supposed to achieve 24*6 = 144 dB. None do. Most get to around 120 dB. As for “32-bit“ DACs, that’s just a lot of marketing hokey. I’m not singling out this particular vendor. They are all guilty of “grade inflation“. I’ve long ago given up hope that digital music equipment manufacturers will report truthful specs.
Of more interest to me is the qualifier that someone with the experienced ears and wide experience (Emile) has offered his opinion that the Rohm is the best sounding off-the-shelf DAC chip he's heard.
After all, there are lies, damn lies and statistics -- why should audio be any different?
Steve Z
Should work fine. Linux driver support is not hard to add.
I‘m not particularly eager to get into yet another noise / numbers discussion
I‘ll leave it at that these numbers are actually not wrong but different values for different parts of different domains (digital / analogue).Plenty of good reads online explaining different types of noise in the digital and/or analogue domain like this one: https://www.izotope.com/en/learn/what-is-the-noise-floor.html
