Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

Going back to the topic of TACDD -- for those DAC manufacturers who decide not to support the new Taiko digital protocol to transmit digital data from Extreme to DAC, would it be feasible for Taiko to develop an interface box, similar to MSB's Pro ISL box, to receive the Taiko protocol over the Taiko cable and convert it back to something the DAC would accept so that a very short cable would connect between box and DAC input.

Granted, it wouldn't be able to carry the Taiko mystery protocol all the way into the DAC's chipset or FPGA but it would at least carry it through the meter or two meters currently using a USB, ethernet, SPDIF or AES/EBU cable and connectors. Would this have any benefit at all?

Steve Z

Well, transporting I2S over a distance is generally problematic which for example MSB has addressed in their Pro ISL interconnect, so you could have a potential benefit from going this way for an "old fashioned" direct I2S transport by shortening the distance, but it's hard to predict how it will all workout, but we could run an experiment and see what happens, it would not be hard to do. For AES/EBU or SPDIF there would be no benefit.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile, It would be great if at the Munich High End (May 18-21) we could hear and compare the Taiko Extreme with the regular power supply vs. BPS. Do you think this may be possible?

During the show would be unpractical, but perhaps we could do a small after hours event. But it's just incomparable, even with good power. We have several WBF members visiting us over the next few months who will probably leave some feedback. And we're planning to get one over to @Steve Williams prior to release who if I understood correctly would be happy to accommodate a few listeners

.......and please TACDA output vs very good external DAC.

Matt

I'm sure there will be plenty of feedback coming from that by means of direct at home comparisons

 

[Blackmorec]

I think it has been much longer than that already.

I never mentioned Playlists and I’m not sure what point you are making here other than to suggest that my streaming setup is not ‘optimised’. I totally agree that mastering quality is much more important than whether it is streamed or local and the difference between the two can only be determined by very careful comparison side by side of a file downloaded from Qobuz and stored on Extreme with the same file streamed from Qobuz. (Assuming it is exactly the same file, but maybe there is no guarantee of that?) So Extreme has, for me, reduced the differences to a very large extent such that the difference is now very small and I’m hoping that the switch/XDMS will eradicate it totally for me. But, again, I cannot detect the source when listening generally without a strict direct comparison.

Hi Malcng,
Yeah I can see that my reply was confusing. I substituted ‘playlists’ for ‘random playback basis’. Sorry for that. My assumption was that your system is optimized, making it harder to pick out differences in local vs remote streaming, given that the differences in mastering are far larger and more profound.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

That's fine with me. I can wait. I'm sure it is a sonic triumph but the "warts" are still a concern to me. The ability of a one button switch back to Roon if I do encounter warts, combined with the desire to use Roon for accessing my considerable playlists combined with my style of searching which Roon makes easy, account for my hesitancy. I don't mind being late to the party.

Keep in mind, if Roon plus the switch and board provides SQ to what everyone is currently enjoying presently with alpha XDMS, that should hold me over just fine until beta XDMS arrives.

One-button-switching between Roon and XDMS has been high on our priority list and we have just achieved preliminary success. It's to be further tested and refined, but this option seems to be close. Please don't ask when it will be implemented, we don't know yet. Just please trust this is a major focus point;-)

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Frankly, I'm more interested in learning when we may see the beta release of XDMS. Is there a new estimate of when we might expect that? (A co-release with the switch and network card would be an audio trifecta!)

We do not have a timeline for when the certification is completed, when we will issue the beta release, or when the public XDMS release will be. All I can say is that we continue to work hard on XDMS every day of the week.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

So how will existing DAC’s be able to connect - or altered in order to connect - with the new format? Is it a (relatively) simple case of swapping out one of the DAC input board/sockets or is is a much more complex process? I’m assuming the latter but hoping for the former.

Emile posted that so far Lampizator, MSB and TotalDac are interested in adding the connection to their products.It means removing XMOS and USB card

Indeed, Emile is speaking with several manufacturers about adopting the TACDD format.
Please see the attached TACDA summary doc for more info.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Any word on the black one?

No news other than our estimations from before, we expect it to be ready in the next few months.

Finish Options

We are offering the first run in the Polished Chrome finish. This is expected to start shipping 28-02-2023.

Black will be added next which by the looks of it takes about 2-3 weeks extra, leading to an estimated April 2023.

Natural copper will very likely be available at around the same time as Black but this is awaiting confirmation.

Bead-blasted and Anodized Aluminum (which is identical to the silver Extreme) availability looks like about 12 weeks later (estimated to be June 2023) due to Aluminum lead times and the anodizing

 

[Christiaan Punter]

No playlists here either, but of course can understand their uses.

One question that I am curious about... Is there a point when additional features or management tools might start impacting SQ in xdms or are there always ways to write additional code to avoid negative impacts into perpetuity?

I guess, taken to the Extreme, is there a way to code everything that Roon offers in full but with superior SQ on par with XDMS currently or even better? I think the obvious concern is everyone listens to music differently and has different needs, adding layers and layers of complexity and time, but perhaps they all can't be met without impacting the overarching goal of xdms - especially if the option is there to click a button and switch to Roon? I am sure this has been thought through ad nauseam, etc.

It pains me as I see some of my audiophile friends abandon Taiko, avert due to lengthy development or bugginess. For a number of my friends we just love the sound quality and are happy to adjust our listening and music curating habits, just the absolute basics for what digital can offer. And apologies if this is moot, irrelevant or completely misses the point as my coding/computer days are long gone and of course have full faith in Team Taiko - we are indebted to your (and the bug busters) efforts.

We have encountered two occasions that I know of where new functions impaired the SQ. But in both cases, we have been able to find alternative ways of doing what we wanted to achieve, without harming the SQ. Rest assured we will not implement anything that has an adverse effect on the sound.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

With regards to Playlist functionality, I personally use them a lot for a multitude of use cases, and at Taiko, we all agree that this is important to get right in XDMS. This is high on our priority list, just a matter of time

 

[VPN]

During the show would be unpractical, but perhaps we could do a small after hours event. But it's just incomparable, even with good power. We have several WBF members visiting us over the next few months who will probably leave some feedback. And we're planning to get one over to @Steve Williams prior to release who if I understood correctly would be happy to accommodate a few listeners



I'm sure there will be plenty of feedback coming from that by means of direct at home comparisons

Dear Emile, Thanks! A small after hours event would be great! It would be important for me to hear the difference myself, before making a decision to purchase or not the BPS.

 

[steve williams]

We do not have a timeline for when the certification is completed, when we will issue the beta release, or when the public XDMS release will be. All I can say is that we continue to work hard on XDMS every day of the week.

Indeed you do. All one needs to do is spend a few days on Discord and watch these guys crush bugs and one quickly realizes that XDMS is an all out assault to achieve a platform with the very best SQ. There is no doubt in my mind as to their success in this venture

 

[steve williams]

And we're planning to get one over to @Steve Williams prior to release who if I understood correctly would be happy to accommodate a few listeners

indeed that is the plan. Many members have already been in touch with me to get more information. Timing of this event will of course be dictated by supply chain issues but hopefully will occur at my house towards the end of May or June. It is my desire that Emile and Ed will attend Last year I did a similar event over a weekend at my house to do a global soft launch in the new Horizon. Lukasz and Fred flew in and there were about 45 over the weekend who attended. It was a huge success. My plan is to have Emile and Ed attend and open my house to members on my side of the pond who want to attend and hear the new BPS and new Extreme. So far there is enormous interest from members who are planning to attend. As details become evident I will have more information for members The goal would be to have the event over a 3-4 day long weekend ( depending on number attending). This would give everyone ample opportunity to hear the new gear as well as to meet Emile and Ed. I will also be planning evening dinners for our esteemed guests just as I did for Lukasz and Fred. These were also well attended by members and hopefully the same for this event. So stay tuned for more information as the dates become finalized

 

[cat6man]

indeed that is the plan. Many members have already been in touch with me to get more information. Timing of this event will of course be dictated by supply chain issues but hopefully will occur at my house towards the end of May or June. It is my desire that Emile and Ed will attend Last year I did a similar event over a weekend at my house to do a global soft launch in the new Horizon. Lukasz and Fred flew in and there were about 45 over the weekend who attended. It was a huge success. My plan is to have Emile and Ed attend and open my house to members on my side of the pond who want to attend and hear the new BPS and new Extreme. So far there is enormous interest from members who are planning to attend. As details become evident I will have more information for members The goal would be to have the event over a 3-4 day long weekend ( depending on number attending). This would give everyone ample opportunity to hear the new gear as well as to meet Emile and Ed. I will also be planning evening dinners for our esteemed guests just as I did for Lukasz and Fred. These were also well attended by members and hopefully the same for this event. So stay tuned for more information as the dates become finalized

Steve
You need a second home on the east coast!
This sounds wonderful.

 

[steve williams]

Steve
You need a second home on the east coast!
This sounds wonderful.

People from the east coast are coming. You should too.

 

[Taiko Audio]

A few more switch manufacturing progress snippets:

 

[Taiko Audio]

 

[oldmustang]

Well, transporting I2S over a distance is generally problematic which for example MSB has addressed in their Pro ISL interconnect, so you could have a potential benefit from going this way for an "old fashioned" direct I2S transport by shortening the distance, but it's hard to predict how it will all workout, but we could run an experiment and see what happens, it would not be hard to do. For AES/EBU or SPDIF there would be no benefit.

Thank you, Emile. Would there be any benefit over USB from Extreme to DAC by going Taiko protocol from TACDD (in Extreme) to a Taiko box incorporating the "other half" of the Taiko protocol, which then outputs some connector/cable format the DAC accepts? Please excuse the many questions, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this (and perhaps engaging in future planning, since I doubt dCS will adopt the Taiko protocol for their DAC or Upsampler so soon on the heels of their APEX upgrade).

Steve Z

 

[2ndLiner]

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Genie in the switch!

 

[Taiko Audio]

Thank you, Emile. Would there be any benefit over USB from Extreme to DAC by going Taiko protocol from TACDD (in Extreme) to a Taiko box incorporating the "other half" of the Taiko protocol, which then outputs some connector/cable format the DAC accepts? Please excuse the many questions, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this (and perhaps engaging in future planning, since I doubt dCS will adopt the Taiko protocol for their DAC or Upsampler so soon on the heels of their APEX upgrade).

Steve Z

For DCS that would then equate to dual AES/EBU. I don’t expect AES/EBU to suffer badly from cable lengths. A box with direct AES/EBU plugs as outputs without any cabling is not impossible to design but surely challenging.

 

[microstrip]

For DCS that would then equate to dual AES/EBU. I don’t expect AES/EBU to suffer badly from cable lengths. A box with direct AES/EBU plugs as outputs without any cabling is not impossible to design but surely challenging.

What would be the purpose of having dual AES/EBU for dCS if the clock signal from dCS can't be sent back to the Taiko? In a dCS stack with clock, the clock cables have more influence in sound than the AES/EBU, but these last also influence sound quality.