Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
So how will existing DAC’s be able to connect - or altered in order to connect - with the new format? Is it a (relatively) simple case of swapping out one of the DAC input board/sockets or is is a much more complex process? I’m assuming the latter but hoping for the former.
As many of you know I’m not an Extreme user because I started my own journey that I want to finish and I‘m getting closer, nearly done. My strategy is very simple….make the physical layer of the digital stream as good as possible (within $$$ and tech limits) at every point on the network, regardless of the physical state of the stream. The network is a process stream, designed to ideally transport (from my perspective) a super complex data stream from an incoming point to my hi-fi, while being unaffected by all the other network traffic.
I‘ve learned that the sooner I can separate my audio related stream from the rest of my incoming network traffic the better. What I want is a network backwater in which to process audio. Ideally that backwater should also be galvanically isolated to address one class of noise. Timing along the entire backwater is critical, even if theory tells you it isn‘t, it is. I can hear it …at least I can hear improvements to the timing, and to the power supplies and to the cables. All this stuff makes a difference that I find easy to identify and qualify, if not quantify. And as I’ve progressed I‘m getting to the point I can no longer really tell anyone what’s going on from a hi-fi point of view. The biggest changes that I hear are to the way the music ‘feels’ and communicates and hooks my entire conscious brain, creating feeling of pleasure and therefore great joy and happiness. Whats changing is how I hear the music….how it generates beautifully enhanced ryhthmic recognition, the melodic and rhythmic soul of the music
I would guess that my system has been in a state where data loss is unlikely for several years. I imagine that the system is bit perfect, given how it plays. But as I have isolated and improved network components and ensured a ‘cascade of improvement’ in terms of the physical layer and vibration control specs of each stage, so every stage of my network feeds into a similar or improved performance next stage. The last step was to do a substantial cable upgrade to the last ethernet and USB cable.
I listened to a few tracks and made a few notes. The more tracks I listened to the longer my notes became until I realised I was writing about the recordings, which all sounded different and enhanced. The only thing in common between one recording and the next was the fact that both sounded and felt a lot better and communicated their message more strongly, with the corresponding increase in attention and involvement. The music became increasing more convincing and driving and ’definite’ as in ‘really exists”. The network affects how I hear the music. The purer and more accurate the digital stream, the better the network functions and the better it functions the better its input to my brain. And if the better in = better out axiom applies, whenever the input is improved, the output gets better and the way the output gets better is mainly in the way my brain is able to create more ‘strongly’ enjoyable music. Music that makes every part of me want to be involved in. Music that brings me alive.
So, back on subject in a few weeks time Taiko will introduce their new Router and Switch. I’m wondering if you are going to have a similar experience, where the biggest changes are to your feelings and emotions and involvement and interest, in other words changes in how you listen to and hear the music and how it feels with a corresponding difficulty to exactly describe what’s changed to achieve that. I’m really looking forward to ‘watching’ the launch as I think there will be some ’surprises’ . Improvements in the network didn‘t always bring what I expected, often it was something unexpected and better. But one other thing I‘ve learned on my network journey is that the scope for improvement is pretty huge and probably the most fertile field in our entire hi-fi. Combine these upcoming Taiko networking ‘gems’ with an Extreme and its new SW platform and digital streaming is about to get a whole lot better in ways a lot of people are not really expecting. For one, far better access to the great feelings and cool emotions ‘drug’ that is music at its best
I‘ve learned that the sooner I can separate my audio related stream from the rest of my incoming network traffic the better. What I want is a network backwater in which to process audio. Ideally that backwater should also be galvanically isolated to address one class of noise. Timing along the entire backwater is critical, even if theory tells you it isn‘t, it is. I can hear it …at least I can hear improvements to the timing, and to the power supplies and to the cables. All this stuff makes a difference that I find easy to identify and qualify, if not quantify. And as I’ve progressed I‘m getting to the point I can no longer really tell anyone what’s going on from a hi-fi point of view. The biggest changes that I hear are to the way the music ‘feels’ and communicates and hooks my entire conscious brain, creating feeling of pleasure and therefore great joy and happiness. Whats changing is how I hear the music….how it generates beautifully enhanced ryhthmic recognition, the melodic and rhythmic soul of the music
I would guess that my system has been in a state where data loss is unlikely for several years. I imagine that the system is bit perfect, given how it plays. But as I have isolated and improved network components and ensured a ‘cascade of improvement’ in terms of the physical layer and vibration control specs of each stage, so every stage of my network feeds into a similar or improved performance next stage. The last step was to do a substantial cable upgrade to the last ethernet and USB cable.
I listened to a few tracks and made a few notes. The more tracks I listened to the longer my notes became until I realised I was writing about the recordings, which all sounded different and enhanced. The only thing in common between one recording and the next was the fact that both sounded and felt a lot better and communicated their message more strongly, with the corresponding increase in attention and involvement. The music became increasing more convincing and driving and ’definite’ as in ‘really exists”. The network affects how I hear the music. The purer and more accurate the digital stream, the better the network functions and the better it functions the better its input to my brain. And if the better in = better out axiom applies, whenever the input is improved, the output gets better and the way the output gets better is mainly in the way my brain is able to create more ‘strongly’ enjoyable music. Music that makes every part of me want to be involved in. Music that brings me alive.
So, back on subject in a few weeks time Taiko will introduce their new Router and Switch. I’m wondering if you are going to have a similar experience, where the biggest changes are to your feelings and emotions and involvement and interest, in other words changes in how you listen to and hear the music and how it feels with a corresponding difficulty to exactly describe what’s changed to achieve that. I’m really looking forward to ‘watching’ the launch as I think there will be some ’surprises’ . Improvements in the network didn‘t always bring what I expected, often it was something unexpected and better. But one other thing I‘ve learned on my network journey is that the scope for improvement is pretty huge and probably the most fertile field in our entire hi-fi. Combine these upcoming Taiko networking ‘gems’ with an Extreme and its new SW platform and digital streaming is about to get a whole lot better in ways a lot of people are not really expecting. For one, far better access to the great feelings and cool emotions ‘drug’ that is music at its best
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Frankly, I'm more interested in learning when we may see the beta release of XDMS. Is there a new estimate of when we might expect that? (A co-release with the switch and network card would be an audio trifecta!)
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Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Emile posted that so far Lampizator, MSB and TotalDac are interested in adding the connection to their products.It means removing XMOS and USB card
Marty, what’s holding you back from running the alpha version? It has warts still but is completely stable for playing music.
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Ed has put a hold on all new requests for the alpha version of XDMS (until it enters beta)as it would involve too much man power support and would take valuable man power resources away from further development of the alpha version.
That's fine with me. I can wait. I'm sure it is a sonic triumph but the "warts" are still a concern to me. The ability of a one button switch back to Roon if I do encounter warts, combined with the desire to use Roon for accessing my considerable playlists combined with my style of searching which Roon makes easy, account for my hesitancy. I don't mind being late to the party.
Keep in mind, if Roon plus the switch and board provides SQ to what everyone is currently enjoying presently with alpha XDMS, that should hold me over just fine until beta XDMS arrives.
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Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
well as I said yesterday that even my wife can easily navigate through XDMS and find exactly what she wants to play and had never once had a complaint or asked me to help her 
. As dminches said it is the music that counts. Looking at the number of alpha users on Discord who seem all in with XDMS it seems that only a very few continue to use Roon along with XDMS
The warts present now IMO are minor and improve with each new build.
. As dminches said it is the music that counts. Looking at the number of alpha users on Discord who seem all in with XDMS it seems that only a very few continue to use Roon along with XDMSThe warts present now IMO are minor and improve with each new build.
Steve Williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
well whenever XDMS becomes beta is my understanding when Ed will open the doors again. Perhaps Apple certification is part of that process
Yes of course, I understand that, but you are saying that the main PCI card has a connector for a daughter card. I suppose this daughter card will occupy a second slot.
Emile, It would be great if at the Munich High End (May 18-21) we could hear and compare the Taiko Extreme with the regular power supply vs. BPS. Do you think this may be possible?
A show is the worst place to do A/B comparisons imho.
And if it is done in a system that is set up in 24 hours in an auditorium room, with 50 people in the room, which probably would not give accurate results vs having it done in a well set up system ie, the Taiko showroom or many other possible showrooms or user's systems, would it not be preferable?
Your preference is noted and respected and maybe it will be demonstrated at Munich for you.
I personally would advise against Taiko doing it under show conditions and I would never do something as important as the upcoming BPS at any show, but that's me.
Especially as the power you get at a show is not similar to the power you would get in a well set up system, so the BPS might even sound better vs Munich power vs how it would sound vs. good power ie, at the Taiko showroom.
Again, imho, we just disagree, no problem with that.
I don't disagree with you, Steve -- XDMS is very usable *for what it is* but playlists are almost non-functional and there is no such thing as Roon Radio in XDMS. Both those things are very important to me and many others. Now, this isn't a rap on the XDMS development team -- they are doing amazing things with a very, very small staff and they can't get to everything all at once. It's not like they have the budget of Roon or other large organizations that can have a separate team working on each facet of functionality.well as I said yesterday that even my wife can easily navigate through XDMS and find exactly what she wants to play and had never once had a complaint or asked me to help her
The warts present now IMO are minor and improve with each new build.
I haven't revisited Roon for a few reasons -- sound quality is better today in XDMS, it's kind of a hassle switching back and forth, and time I spend with Roon is time away from looking for bugs in XDMS. If I had the one button control that allowed me to switch between Roon and XDMS I would be revisiting Roon much more often.
Steve Z
I know I am in the minority with respect to playlists. I have 1 playlist which I use when I audition an equipment change. Other than that I am full albums or concerts.
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