Active Anti-vibration Platforms : Accurion i4 and Herzan TS150

[Mike Lavigne]

Why not put a Herzan below each of the two front legs of the rack?

View attachment 20580

In this way one leg can be kept for mechanical grounding.
Of course there is a risk for transmission of vibration in that leg, but I see clear advantages to keep one grounding point.

Did anyone try the Herzan under speakers?

there are a few reasons you would not choose to have any 'target' partially grounded with the Herzan under some of the legs.

part of decoupling effectively is leveling as the sensors/actuators are only effective when they are able to attain level as the whole idea is that the top surface 'floats'. if only 2 legs are decoupled essentially you have a 'hinge' type action....which would actually amplify resonance as the 2 Herzan's would 'fight' each other and constantly try to level.

ideally the base of the Herzan sits on something that is fully grounded so it can operate optimally.

one great aspect of the Herzan type products is their inherent stiffness since they are able to 'stop' unlike a passive device that can only 'settle'. so a turntable 'voiced' to be on a solid surface is normally quite 'happy' on a Herzan. one can never fully predict the result when using decoupling/isolation.

read this tutorial.

http://www.herzan.com/resources/tutorials/basics-of-isolation.html

the Herzan AVI series can accommodate much larger assemblies as it has bases and then platforms.

http://www.herzan.com/products/active-vibration-control/avi-series.html

I've not heard of anyone trying active isolation under a speaker. practically one would need to 'dig out' a lowered area for this device to sit in to keep the speaker at the right height.....

 

[Calle_jr]

part of decoupling effectively is leveling as the sensors/actuators are only effective when they are able to attain level as the whole idea is that the top surface 'floats'. if only 2 legs are decoupled essentially you have a 'hinge' type action....which would actually amplify resonance as the 2 Herzan's would 'fight' each other and constantly try to level.

True.
My concern was to lose the mechanical grounding. I have tried so many passive damping materials and constructions, e.g. urethane, sylomer, sylodyne, sd pads etc, and they rarely improve the sonics. For sure they are effective to decrease vibration, but they flatten the sound.

one great aspect of the Herzan type products is their inherent stiffness since they are able to 'stop' unlike a passive device that can only 'settle'. so a turntable 'voiced' to be on a solid surface is normally quite 'happy' on a Herzan. one can never fully predict the result when using decoupling/isolation.

Sounds promising.
I've been experimenting to find a state of critical damping for my rack for a long time. These active devices could for sure be a shortcut.
But they are costly.

Nice tutorial!

the Herzan AVI series can accommodate much larger assemblies as it has bases and then platforms.

http://www.herzan.com/products/active-vibration-control/avi-series.html

That AVI-200M would fit!

Thanks again!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I have tried so many passive damping materials and constructions, e.g. urethane, sylomer, sylodyne, sd pads etc, and they rarely improve the sonics. For sure they are effective to decrease vibration, but they flatten the sound.

those rubber type materials are effective for protecting surfaces between hard objects but terrible for the sound. they 'muddy' up the sound and cause smearing. you are better off with spikes or balls and cups where you don't have the smearing.

sometimes isolating circuits inside electronics some of those rubber type materials can be effective when they are 'voiced' into the design. but between gear and shelves they rarely work or more accurately they occasionally accidentally work.

bad decoupling is worse than ordinary grounding or mass loading.

bad decoupling will cause the gear to 'sing' along with the music and add it's own grey cloud over the music.

But they (active isolation devices) are costly.

yes; they are. but when you hear the performance boost and look around at what that same price differential is for a similar performance boost with that performance built in, the value equation is at least similar and more likely better.

Nice tutorial!

yes; it is. and it is aimed at science and industry and not at audiophiles. it's the most complete info I've seen on anti-vibration.

Thanks again!

you are welcome.

 

[Jeffy]

Can these active devices work with spring suspended TT's like the Basis, Sota's etc.

 

[Calle_jr]

Can these active devices work with spring suspended TT's like the Basis, Sota's etc.

Good question. Usually, it's a really bad idea in my opinion. But in this case the spring-damping system is different in its nature.
If the characteristics of the TT are known, some general performance figures could be calculated.

 

[Calle_jr]

they 'muddy' up the sound and cause smearing.

'Smearing' is a much better word! We can't use it in Swedish, but I totally understand what you mean.
I now use FE Cerabase Classic for the rack and Slimline for the speakers. I have manufactured a composite base between the Slimline and speakers. It is two 30mm thick plywood boards with a 5mm viscoelastic membrane glued in between under high pressure. As you mentioned previously, the speakers are raised some 40mm compared to original, but I have raised the back just some mm to compensate for that at LP.

bad decoupling will cause the gear to 'sing' along with the music and add it's own grey cloud over the music.

True.
I think I have a tendency of this for my turntable and it's not so easy to eliminate.

 

[Elberoth]

I should get my Accurion tomorrow.

 

[Calle_jr]

I should get my Accurion tomorrow.

Great!
Which one is it and did you combine it with some of their tables?

 

[Elberoth]

Got the i4.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Got the i4.

Congrats. welcome to the active isolation club!

 

[Elberoth]

For the time beeing, I got one for 4 weeks loan only.

 

[Elberoth]

Here is the EU pricelist for those interested. As you can see, there are 4 models that vary in size and load capacity:

 

[Calle_jr]

Here is the EU pricelist for those interested. As you can see, there are 4 models that vary in size and load capacity:

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/3078/gNGYrj.jpg

That looks promising!
Did you (or anyone) look at http://www.minusk.com products?
Especially the WS-4 is interesting.

 

[Kingsrule]

Don't like the bolt thru on the table tops....

 

[Calle_jr]

Don't like the bolt thru on the table tops....

Me neither, but they are shipping collars so you may remove them
I would probably also replace the leveling footings.
Unfortunately I can 't find any decent images of these isolation tables, especially the inside of the mechanical unit.
The specifications are quite good, but a bit too generic.
Here's a sketch with some more dimensions of the stand;


Edit: here is actually a guy called petkef with this table http://www.aca.gr/index/forums/fgr/hiend1?row=2070&pgn=480
Can't find him here.

 

[Calle_jr]

Sorry to post before checking, am I off topic?
In that case I will move or remove the minus k things.

 

[Audiocrack]

For the time beeing, I got one for 4 weeks loan only.

Were you impressed with the performance of the i4, Adam?

 

[Calle_jr]

Many of you already did some thinking about these platforms, but for those who didn't I would advise;

- If you use a suspended turntable, you should investigate what the combination will result in.
- What type of rack do you plan to use? Do you use some damping in your rack?
- If you add the cost of a platform to the cost of your current turntable - which turntable can you buy for the same money?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Can these active devices work with spring suspended TT's like the Basis, Sota's etc.

A.J. Conti told me that active isolation will slightly improve the isolation of his Basis turntables. I researched the Herzan and I played with one at T.H.E. Show in Irvine. I think the Herzan is a fantastic piece of equipment (very well made, professional and effective). If my turntable configuration allowed me to put my turntable on the appropriate size Herzan I absolutely would buy one.

The isolation improvement provided by the Herzan may be small but it definitely is real and is not audiophile hocus-pocus.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Here is the EU pricelist for those interested. As you can see, there are 4 models that vary in size and load capacity:

Damn! I just dropped a bomb in my pants!