Lampizator announcement: launch of our all new TOTL HORIZON DAC

[Al M.]

I also felt there should be a no tube option.

As has been pointed out, you need a baseline for listening, so this not a real option.

 

[Al M.]

It is a option , base line is not for everyone

But how do you know if the Horizon can sound any good without supplied tubes? What if you start with favorite "roller" tubes and find the sound lacking? Do you then blame the Horizon or could it simply be lack of synergy?

It quickly can become a bad merry-go-round that is readily avoided with supplied tubes and a firm baseline.

So no, the no-tube option is not an option.

***

Impatiently starting with tube rolling before proper break-in of the unit with standard supplied tubes would be a bad idea too.

 

[Steve williams]

Personally, I think the French 5687s were overhyped (for the Horizon). They are a nice tube but I have found the 6SN7s to sound much better. One of these days I will put in a Tung Sol 5687 and see what I hear. Likewise, favorite tube of mine, the 6H30DR did not sound better than 6SN7s.

No doubt that the TRP owners hoarded the pentodes!

David, I tend to disagree. I own several sets of 6900, several sets of Thomson 5687 CSA and several sets of TS JAN VT231 6SN7 GT round plate. If one were to hear any of these tubes on their own, they all make for fabulous music. To me the 6SN7 is like a 5687 on steroids with an apparent extended top and bottom end, better dynamics, more information and tighter bass but that does not negate the beauty of the 5687 and/or the 6900. The 6SN7 is indeed for my ears the King of the Road

 

[Al M.]

Suppose your the type of guy that wants a corvette but asks if it comes with a v6 option so you can get a baseline

That's a ridiculous comparison, and you know it.

 

[dminches]

Suppose your the type of guy that wants a corvette but asks if it comes with a v6 option so you can get a baseline

The tubes are not the engine of the Horizon.

 

[bonzo75]

Ok easy guys, Rau was just doing what forum guys do, thinking out loud and giving suggestions, many people here think they have ideas that add value. No need to be over sensitive, he made a suggestion, it was pushed back on, that's how some suggestions work. It is a fair question to ask if any dac can be sold minus the tubes, and if no, answer is fine as well. 2k on H budget is not much. You are just not going to get through so much tube rolling without debates

 

[Tuckia]

Al, that was a rather convoluted essay. That's the same path that Justin went down. Let's not go there, at least not here.

Rodney is playing consumer advocate, and I'm not disappointed to see someone say something about it. You can argue on style points, but I won't waste time on that.

Is the current standard set of tubes lower in cost than the ones provided the early buyers. Yep. I think it would have been helpful for Lukasz to offer his explanation more completely up front to preemptively tamp down the possible push back. I'm fine with his explanation. I didn't realize some of these tube sources had dried up, like KR.

Assigning the extra baggage to Rodney's comments goes too far.

To suggest that we should be grateful to Lampizator for permitting us to purchase such great products goes too far. Hey, I'm happy with what I have. This is my 4th Lampi dac. But I'm no more grateful to Lampizator than I am to BMW, Ducati, or Dodge. The purchase choice is it's own reward. I have no problem with honest feedback - on the product.

Have I purchased equipment without tubes before? Yes. Should it be an option? Sure, why not? Is there value to having a baseline set of tubes? Yes. It would have been better to have a consistent baseline from the beginning, but we live in changing times.

 

[Zero000]

Isn't it too early to be drinking and typing, Justin?

What is it with your personal vendetta/witch hunt towards Lukasz?
Why all these personal attacks?
This is definitely against ANY nettiquette rules there are

Well you have met me and stayed in what was my house, Christoph, years ago. I enjoyed that experience.

Just had a long chat with Howie and we both agree. After sales treatment and warranty are shit. I basically don't like the guy because of that.

Accept it.

He sent his DAC back 3 times then sold it.

 

[Willgolf]

Wow, I wake up to a tube sh*t storm. Actually, it has been a very good read. About 2 years ago I purchased Canary Grand Reference 300B monoblocks for $45k. I was not aware initially that they did not come with tubes. I was a little pissed at that price. The owner of the Company said that he could not source every imaginable tube that a customer might want so he said the customer can buy whatever they wanted.

At the time I was clueless as to what I should buy. I ended up getting Gold Lion 300B because I needed 16 of them. That was my baseline and I wondered if I could get more out of the amps. I ended up buying 16 Western Electric 300B tubes...gulp. IMO, I would have rather been supplied what the amp builder thought were the best tubes that he could get for the amp.

When I went to Steve's house for the unofficial launch of the H, Lukasz stated that tubes will be based on what he could source. He stated that what will go in the first 10 units would not necessarily be the same as the next 10 or the next 10.

When I do get my Horizon, my plan is to go with the stock tubes for at least a month. Then I am going to insert a QSA red fuse in to the H see if the sound changes. I am a believer in fuses as most here are in tube rolling. Then I have multiple sets of vintage NOS tubes that I have that no one talks about on these threads to try. Like Steve, I will pick the best to my ears and be happy.

 

[rau]

I apologize for my outburst, this was not the place . I was totally shocked . This will be handled in a PM .

 

[Zero000]

Ignore lol this is lowering my anger level might have lower my meds soon lol. Justin it’s ok to feel as you do. but to hold onto hate is not worth it mentally take my advice. i learned decades ago to let go even forget. In my businesses I could have held onto many such memories. it’s better to let go in the end hate is not a useful emotion like jealousy
it’s an ugly emotion with no helping you. Just my advise

It's cool advice Al.

No worries.

At the end of the day we do get a bit fucked up about what we hear. Especially when we are into it and it just dominates.

Whatever. Enjoy.

I just watched In Bruges. For the third time.

Try it. Pretty mad, but then again in my book it is just excellent.

 

[plasmod3]

Does anyone's horizon default to input no 5 on start up? Reading manual supposed to default to input 4. Everything works but will be nice to not change input on start up each time

 

[dminches]

Does anyone's horizon default to input no 5 on start up? Reading manual supposed to default to input 4. Everything works but will be nice to not change input on start up each time

I only use 4 so I assumed it defaulted to the last used input. I guess that isn't the case. Mine always starts on 4.

 

[Steve williams]

Wow, I wake up to a tube sh*t storm. Actually, it has been a very good read. About 2 years ago I purchased Canary Grand Reference 300B monoblocks for $45k. I was not aware initially that they did not come with tubes. I was a little pissed at that price. The owner of the Company said that he could not source every imaginable tube that a customer might want so he said the customer can buy whatever they wanted.

At the time I was clueless as to what I should buy. I ended up getting Gold Lion 300B because I needed 16 of them. That was my baseline and I wondered if I could get more out of the amps. I ended up buying 16 Western Electric 300B tubes...gulp. IMO, I would have rather been supplied what the amp builder thought were the best tubes that he could get for the amp.

When I went to Steve's house for the unofficial launch of the H, Lukasz stated that tubes will be based on what he could source. He stated that what will go in the first 10 units would not necessarily be the same as the next 10 or the next 10.

When I do get my Horizon, my plan is to go with the stock tubes for at least a month. Then I am going to insert a QSA red fuse in to the H see if the sound changes. I am a believer in fuses as most here are in tube rolling. Then I have multiple sets of vintage NOS tubes that I have that no one talks about on these threads to try. Like Steve, I will pick the best to my ears and be happy.

I must admit that I like the idea of a set of stock tubes from which to start and get a base line BUT by the same token I do understand Lukasz plight as to sourcing tubes as well as the sky rocketing prices so yes there are two sides Ito every story. However to dump on him when those desires just aren’t available any more is unfair and unwarranted.

Let me give an analogy. ………people buy $50K to $250K turntables. Guess what. i don’t see them coming with a tonearm or a cartridge. I don’t hear any name calling there

And finally what about those manufacturers who make high end equipment and either ship it with no power cord or a very inexpensive $10 PC. They do this because they know users will use a choice of their own. Same for a turntable coming without an arm or a cartridge

and guess who doesn’t supply a PC with their products?………

None other than Lampizator. How come Justin and Rau aren’t having tizzy fits about that I bet both of you have had no problems finding a suitable power cord. I bet neither of you griped when your turntable arrived and you had to set it up and when the time came for the arm and cartridge they were nowhere to be found

it’s time to drop the name calling. It was stated up front and at my house by Lukasz at the soft launch in Feb and has been posted in this thread many times over that each H would come with a set of stock tubes which were his best at the time Those options have dwindled week by week. As for the stock tubes for the next 6 months, as someone said, there was a time when each of those tubes were revered

and to address some recent post when it was said that users didn’t like the stock tubes and bought until they found what they liked. TBH I don’t think there is a single Horizon owner who is still using the supplied stock tubes. This makes the point of no tubes at all is the best option.

Lukasz post earlier today clearly outlines his dilemma as to sourcing tubes. It just isn’t feasible.and you guys feel he has harmed you just doesn’t fly

 

[wisnon]

I must admit that I like the idea of a set of stock tubes from which to start and get a base line BUT by the same token I do understand Lukasz plight as to sourcing tubes as well as the sky rocketing prices so yes there are two sides Ito every story. However to dump on him when those desires just aren’t available any more is unfair and unwarranted.

Let me give an analogy. ………people buy $50K to $250K turntables. Guess what. i don’t see them coming with a tonearm or a cartridge. I don’t hear any name calling there

And finally what about those manufacturers who make high end equipment and either ship it with no power cord or a very inexpensive $10 PC. They do this because they know users will use a choice of their own. Same for a turntable coming without an arm or a cartridge

and guess who doesn’t supply a PC with their products?………

None other than Lampizator. How come Justin and Rau aren’t having tizzy fits about that I bet both of you have had no problems finding a suitable power cord. I bet neither of you griped when your turntable arrived and you had to set it up and when the time came for the arm and cartridge they were nowhere to be found

it’s time to drop the name calling. It was stated up front and at my house by Lukasz at the soft launch in Feb and has been posted in this thread many times over that each H would come with a set of stock tubes which were his best at the time Those options have dwindled week by week. As for the stock tubes for the next 6 months, as someone said, there was a time when each of those tubes were revered

and to address some recent post when it was said that users didn’t like the stock tubes and bought until they found what they liked. TBH I don’t think there is a single Horizon owner who is still using the supplied stock tubes. This makes the point of no tubes at all is the best option.

Lukasz post earlier today clearly outlines his dilemma as to sourcing tubes. It just isn’t feasible.and you guys feel he has harmed you just doesn’t fly

Almost every commercial product launch has an early bird incentive special. Here we have exotic tubes for the early adopters and most generous upgrade conditions for the first few months. After a while these go away and yes, as Steve said, these were all announced up front. This is reality. Another reality is that some manufacturers raise prices as supply costs and surging demand dictate. I recall an Asian CD transport maker launch at $700 and soon repriced at $1200 citing cost increases and surging demand...things happen man!

 

[rau]

I must admit that I like the idea of a set of stock tubes from which to start and get a base line BUT by the same token I do understand Lukasz plight as to sourcing tubes as well as the sky rocketing prices so yes there are two sides Ito every story. However to dump on him when those desires just aren’t available any more is unfair and unwarranted.

Let me give an analogy. ………people buy $50K to $250K turntables. Guess what. i don’t see them coming with a tonearm or a cartridge. I don’t hear any name calling there

And finally what about those manufacturers who make high end equipment and either ship it with no power cord or a very inexpensive $10 PC. They do this because they know users will use a choice of their own. Same for a turntable coming without an arm or a cartridge

and guess who doesn’t supply a PC with their products?………

None other than Lampizator. How come Justin not and Rau aren’t having tizzy fits about that I bet both of you have had no problems finding a suitable power cord. I bet neither of you griped when your turntable arrived and you had to set it up and when the time came for the arm and cartridge they were nowhere to be found

it’s time to drop the name calling. It was stated up front and at my house by Lukasz at the soft launch in Feb and has been posted in this thread many times over that each H would come with a set of stock tubes which were his best at the time Those options have dwindled week by week. As for the stock tubes for the next 6 months, as someone said, there was a time when each of those tubes were revered

and to address some recent post when it was said that users didn’t like the stock tubes and bought until they found what they liked. TBH I don’t think there is a single Horizon owner who is still using the supplied stock tubes. This makes the point of no tubes at all is the best option.

Lukasz post earlier today clearly outlines his dilemma as to sourcing tubes. It just isn’t feasible.and you guys feel he has harmed you just doesn’t fly

Steve are you suggesting my post was at same level as Justin's now ? I thought my post was pretty polite

 

[Steve williams]

Steve are you suggesting my post was at same level as Justin's now ? I thought my post was pretty polite

Let’s just all try to get along I see both sides of the story and I feel bad for those deep in the queue but let’s not blame Lukasz for a situation that is beyond his control.

 

[rau]

Let’s just all try to get along I see both sides of the story and I feel bad for those deep in the queue but let’s not blame Lukasz for a situation that is beyond his control

That sounds like a great idea .. But it's not beyond his control. All I was trying to point out from the beginning was , I truly feel there should be a no tube option that's it .The tubes that came with the Horizon in the beginning had a higher value . Now the tubes that are being supplied are 1/3 the value so buyer is actually getting less and the manufacture is making more . This is very clear . If people are okay with this great . It's just my personal opinion. And as far as I'm concerned I said my peace . I will not carry on or reply to this subject anymore.

 

[ctydwn]

That is true. If folks had put in a deposit after December when I did, and already received the Horizon with the ‘higher value’ tubes that would be a bummer. But sht happens.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

That is true. If folks had put in a deposit after December when I did, and already received the Horizon with the ‘higher value’ tubes that would be a bummer. But sht happens.

These tubes were NOT of higher VALUE but higher price. Since then KR Audio folded their pentode program entirely. The tubes I offer now are of better sound quality . If the issue is about dropping the price by 200 euro that I pay less for them, I will happily do.