Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Christiaan Punter]

I just realized that my Roon was not setup per the Ideal Settings PDF that’s on the Taiko website. I encourage all new owners to check that doc!

Now, the document says to use DSD over PCM, is that correct? With my Nagra DAC, I am using Native, which I believe is the best option for native DSD DACs. Can someone please confirm. Thanks.

Hi Zeotrope, indeed, it depends on the DAC. Emile just pointed out to me that there was an error in the document.

The setting should always be Native, unless that option is not available. Some DACs cannot process DSD directly, in which case it should be set to DoP most of the time.

I have amended the doc and reuploaded a V2 to the Taiko site. Apologies for the confusion!

The updated Roon Settings document, as well as all other documents that relate to the Taiko Audio Extreme can be found at the bottom of the Extreme page on the Taiko Audio website:

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/extreme-music-server/

 

[Zeotrope]

The page you attached says, ". . . select the appropriate DSD transport stream according to your DAC's capabilities." So if your DAC is capable of native DSD there is no reason not to use that.

Steve Z

It also says “Most of the time, this option should be set to DSD over PCM (DoP)“. I would have thought that most owners of the Extreme have a DAC capable of converting native DSD. I would imagine the sound quality suffers when you convert DSD to PCM.

 

[Zeotrope]

Hi Zeotrope, indeed, it depends on the DAC. Emile just pointed out to me that there was an error in the document.

The setting should always be Native, unless that option is not available. Some DACs cannot process DSD directly, in which case it should be set to DoP most of the time.

I have amended the doc and reuploaded a V2 to the Taiko site. Apologies for the confusion!

The updated Roon Settings document, as well as all other documents that relate to the Taiko Audio Extreme can be found at the bottom of the Extreme page on the Taiko Audio website:

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/extreme-music-server/

ok great, thanks CP!
Any other changes to the document, or just this one?

 

[cat6man]

What is the recommended USB setting for the JLSounds usb-->spdif board?

@Kris
What are you using for this?

 

[Taiko Audio]

What is the recommended USB setting for the JLSounds usb-->spdif board?

@Kris
What are you using for this?

USB4 - Roon 32-bit

 

[Christiaan Punter]

It also says “Most of the time, this option should be set to DSD over PCM (DoP)“. I would have thought that most owners of the Extreme have a DAC capable of converting native DSD. I would imagine the sound quality suffers when you convert DSD to PCM.

If your DAC can handle native DSD then the setting should be native. If not, then the most-used setting would be DoP.

Here is the full text as amended for v2 of the document:

In the Device Setup popup window, select the appropriate DSD transport stream according to your DAC’s capabilities. The setting should always be Native, unless that option is not available. Some DACs cannot process DSD directly, in which case it should be set to DoP most of the time.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

ok great, thanks CP!
Any other changes to the document, or just this one?

Nope, just this bit

 

[steve williams]

Nope, just this bit

Has the XDMS manual been written yet? If so I’m betting you’ll get a lot of offers from members here to proof read it.……myself included

 

[oldmustang]

I would imagine the sound quality suffers when you convert DSD to PCM.

Like many things in audio opinions are divided. In my own limited experience I have not been able to determine any audible difference between DoP and native DSD, so I don’t stress over it.

Easy enough for you to try both to determine if you can hear any difference.

Steve Z

 

[John T]

My Extreme arrived today got it up and running for streaming Tidal/Qobuz. I'm not a computer wiz, actually quite limited. I want to load all my files from my hard drives into port 4 USB Data direct into the Extreme. For this to happen the network has to see the Extreme to drag and drop. For some reason its not showing up on the laptop in the Network. Waiting on Ed to intervene, hopefully early morning and get this put to bed, where I'm headed right now. Can anyone point out why the Extreme may not be showing up in the network? Is this where VNC comes into play? Its there somewhere because its functioning as my core. First 3o minutes along with a new Omega USB, pretty rough. But it started to take off in a short period of time. I'm using the M12 and have gone back a couple of times, to early to share anything in regards to that. Pretty amazing an hour of listening and how much it has opened up. John

 

[oldmustang]

My Extreme arrived today got it up and running for streaming Tidal/Qobuz. I'm not a computer wiz, actually quite limited. I want to load all my files from my hard drives into port 4 USB Data direct into the Extreme. For this to happen the network has to see the Extreme to drag and drop. For some reason its not showing up on the laptop in the Network. Waiting on Ed to intervene, hopefully early morning and get this put to bed, where I'm headed right now. Can anyone point out why the Extreme may not be showing up in the network? Is this where VNC comes into play? Its there somewhere because its functioning as my core. First 3o minutes along with a new Omega USB, pretty rough. But it started to take off in a short period of time. I'm using the M12 and have gone back a couple of times, to early to share anything in regards to that. Pretty amazing an hour of listening and how much it has opened up. John

Congratulations, John!

I'm sure Ed will get it all sorted for you. In my experience, the Shunyata Omega takes a good 24-48 hours to settle in. The Extreme starts sounding really good out of the box and improves from there pretty quickly. But full break-in takes around 500 hours. Interestingly, unlike some equipment that is kind of up and down during break-in, I didn't notice any downs with the Extreme -- it just kept getting better and better.

I predict you're going to lose some sleep for a few nights, John. All in a good cause though.

Steve Z

 

[DoctorWhy]

My Extreme arrived today got it up and running for streaming Tidal/Qobuz. I'm not a computer wiz, actually quite limited. I want to load all my files from my hard drives into port 4 USB Data direct into the Extreme. For this to happen the network has to see the Extreme to drag and drop. For some reason its not showing up on the laptop in the Network. Waiting on Ed to intervene, hopefully early morning and get this put to bed, where I'm headed right now. Can anyone point out why the Extreme may not be showing up in the network? Is this where VNC comes into play? Its there somewhere because its functioning as my core. First 3o minutes along with a new Omega USB, pretty rough. But it started to take off in a short period of time. I'm using the M12 and have gone back a couple of times, to early to share anything in regards to that. Pretty amazing an hour of listening and how much it has opened up. John

To do this you will need a direct wired connection between the Taiko and your computer. The hard drive should be connected to another USB port. This will facilitate drag and drop.

 

[nenon]

My Extreme started to sound really good after around 1500 hours (call it two months of non-stop running).

 

[steve williams]

My Extreme arrived today got it up and running for streaming Tidal/Qobuz. I'm not a computer wiz, actually quite limited. I want to load all my files from my hard drives into port 4 USB Data direct into the Extreme. For this to happen the network has to see the Extreme to drag and drop. For some reason its not showing up on the laptop in the Network. Waiting on Ed to intervene, hopefully early morning and get this put to bed, where I'm headed right now. Can anyone point out why the Extreme may not be showing up in the network? Is this where VNC comes into play? Its there somewhere because its functioning as my core. First 3o minutes along with a new Omega USB, pretty rough. But it started to take off in a short period of time. I'm using the M12 and have gone back a couple of times, to early to share anything in regards to that. Pretty amazing an hour of listening and how much it has opened up. John

Well worth the wait I’m betting

 

[steve williams]

What tubes John

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Like many things in audio opinions are divided. I my own limited experience I have not been able to determine any audible difference between DoP and native DSD, so I don’t stress over it.

Easy enough for you to try both to determine if you can hear any difference.

Steve Z

Indeed, there need not be an audible difference, but there can be.

It ties in with how the input receiver works and how the DAC in question does the conversion itself. With DoP versus Native, you're choosing between letting Roon pass the signal unchanged or having it wrap the DSD signal in a PCM container. Not having Roon do any processing is nearly always good practice. However, please note that the DoP process can be quite transparent or maybe even entirely transparent. In terms of resolution, we would technically not lose anything.

Many DACs today are DSD compatible but only a small number of these can actually process DSD in its true native form. Most DSD-compatible DACs work exclusively in PCM mode and thus must do a DSD to PCM conversion internally. In these cases, the difference between DoP and Native can be academic. With some DACs though, certainly in the case of true native DSD DACs, "crippling" the native DSD stream by resampling to PCM will be very audible.

Ultimately, as Steve says, it's easy enough to just try for yourself. Do keep the volume down during changes as some settings can lead to loud hissing noise if the DAC cannot process the signal as intended.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

P

To do this you will need a direct wired connection between the Taiko and your computer. The hard drive should be connected to another USB port. This will facilitate drag and drop.

Please note that if you connect Hard Drives to the Extreme directly, you will also need to gain access to its desktop to be able to do drag and drop, for instance via VNC. However, the easier method is to access the Extreme via the wired Ethernet network. It's normal for Windows not to see the server by default. For this, it needs to be connected to, for instance via the Add Network Drive" dialog. After that, the server will always be there in the File Explorer.

Detailed descriptions are in the user manual (at the bottom of the Extreme page on the Taiko website) and indeed, we are always available via mail (support@taikoaudio.com). I believe John has already contacted Ed.

 

[Azjya]

To digress. Much of Europe is experiencing unprecedented hot weather. When the temperature in my listening room reached 30 degrees this week, I fully shut down the Extreme (front button double push then, when light out, rear rocker switch to ‘off’). A sensible precaution (the temperature subsequently peaked at 33 degrees) or unnecessary?

 

[Taiko Audio]

To digress. Much of Europe is experiencing unprecedented hot weather. When the temperature in my listening room reached 30 degrees this week, I fully shut down the Extreme (front button double push then, when light out, rear rocker switch to ‘off’). A sensible precaution (the temperature subsequently peaked at 33 degrees) or unnecessary?

Unnecessary.

 

[Azjya]

Good to know, thank you. Is there a point (temperature) when I *should* power it down or is it safe to assume that normal summer time high indoor temperatures are fine?