Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[EuroDriver]

Here is an extract of an interesting post dated March 13 on Naver.com's in one of its High End Audio Cafes. The session was captured in the video above posted by Esotar. The translation is by Google

The long post is by Muscle Pain in his Cafe Blog Free Audio Club

Let's summarize my first day's testimony.

Summary of four people (attendees to Muscle Pain's first listen session with the SGM Extreme)

Uki-Chan: The sound of the W20&Rubidium clock is 100 points,and the sound of SGM Extreme is over 150 points.
If you compare the feeling that you heard a lot of LPs in the past,the sound of SGM Extreme sounds like 98~99%of LP.

Nirvana: I was surprised to hear SGM Extreme when I heard the W20&Rubidium clock.
If the sound of W20&Rubidium clock sounds like a high quality record, SGM Extreme feels like you are performing at a live performance scene. I was really surprised at the music of Park Jung-hyun
(Nirvana's expression after listening to this song was impressive)

Loud: I heard the Mediterranean Sundance,and I heard that I was playing my own rather than feeling the performance. I thought that the sound of the Oranges N10 and W20 was really good, but the sound of the SGM Extreme is exceedingly impressive.

Muscle Pain: The sound of the W20&Rubidium clock is good enough and has been satisfied for a short period of time. However,listening to the
SGM Extreme, I feel I have found an answer to what is close to the original sound and closer to the LP. When listening to the sound of the SGM
Extreme and listening to the sound of the W20 & rubidium clock,it is clear that it sounds pretty and good, but it feels like a relatively processed
sound.

SGM Extreme is a tremendous music server that opens up the possibilities for anyone who pursues analog from a digital sound source.

What's interesting for me is that is this is with a very different system from the one Emile has in Hengelo but the sonic experience Delta's appear to be pretty similar. Very reassuring that there is this consistency of data points !

 

[Esotar]

Next week, Muscle Pain will compare SGM Extreme to MP 64-32 Diamond.

He will make movies.

When he posts the movies, I'll post them in this thread.

Actually EVO won to MP 64-32 Diamond in Korea.

Ha Ha

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i've been talking to Ed and Emile from Taiko/SGM and i've placed an order for the SGM Extreme to replace my SGM 2015 server. i had been thinking about the EVO upgrade but decided to jump all the way up. should have it sometime in May.

likely the MSB Pro USB will be part of that jump up too. excited to hear what these changes can do and how it will move my digital reference.

listening daily to my current digital it's hard to imagine it getting better...........

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, I recall you've written something similar before LOL.
I've just heard a heavilly modded version of my cdp which I struggled to see how it could be bettered. Only took one song to hear the difference...

 

[Audiophile Bill]

i've been talking to Ed and Emile from Taiko/SGM and i've placed an order for the SGM Extreme to replace my SGM 2015 server. i had been thinking about the EVO upgrade but decided to jump all the way up. should have it sometime in May.

likely the MSB Pro USB will be part of that jump up too. excited to hear what these changes can do and how it will move my digital reference.

listening daily to my current digital it's hard to imagine it getting better...........

Wow cool news, Mike. I am confident you’ll get a good upleap in performance - Emile and Ed are good guys and very passionate about creating the best so I think you are in safe hands.

 

[CKKeung]

Next week, Muscle Pain will compare SGM Extreme to MP 64-32 Diamond.
He will make movies.
When he posts the movies, I'll post them in this thread.
Actually EVO won to MP 64-32 Diamond in Korea.
Ha Ha

i've been talking to Ed and Emile from Taiko/SGM and i've placed an order for the SGM Extreme to replace my SGM 2015 server. i had been thinking about the EVO upgrade but decided to jump all the way up. should have it sometime in May.

likely the MSB Pro USB will be part of that jump up too. excited to hear what these changes can do and how it will move my digital reference.

listening daily to my current digital it's hard to imagine it getting better...........

All MSB owners are waiting for a new Renderer which employs the optical connection of the Pro USB.


Esotar : IMHO pls don't waste time to do Extreme vs MP64-32 Diamond, if the EVO was found to be better at a similar comparison earlier.

 

[Esotar]

My main aim is to show you how Extreme sound is great and difference against MP 64-32 Diamond.

Two products sound is different.

 

[Esotar]

i've been talking to Ed and Emile from Taiko/SGM and i've placed an order for the SGM Extreme to replace my SGM 2015 server. i had been thinking about the EVO upgrade but decided to jump all the way up. should have it sometime in May.

likely the MSB Pro USB will be part of that jump up too. excited to hear what these changes can do and how it will move my digital reference.

listening daily to my current digital it's hard to imagine it getting better...........

Congratulations, Mike~!!

Your decision is very wise.

EVO is very awesome, but Extreme is much more excellent.

Please compare Extreme to your GREAT turntable~!!

 

[Kris]

So it sounds like we have few competitors that perform very well
As a music servers on this forum:

Pink faun 2.16x
Innous statement
Wadax Atlantis
Taiko SMG evo
Taiko SMG extreme

As far as I see some tried to compare them.
It is difficult but I think some of you could try to express the preference and say why.

I think form what I pulled together it looks like Taiko Extreme ( older name ultimate ? ) might be a clear winner .
Few will still prefer Wadax for its musicality.

Please correct me if I am wrong .

 

[flkin]

I'm not aware of any listening comparisons with the Pink Faun 2.16x as yet. There's so little info on the unit

I have one and would be happy to offer it for comparisons to any other the listed units above.

Pink Faun hasn't found a way to eliminate the use of OCXO internal clocks as yet like in the Extreme. In fact they are pushing deeper into clock tech as seen in their recent announcements

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Congratulations, Mike~!!

Your decision is very wise.

EVO is very awesome, but Extreme is much more excellent.

Please compare Extreme to your GREAT turntable~!!

thank you Esotar.

i will be sure to do that compare, but keep in mind that while our digital with such products as the Select II and the SGM Extreme is definitely getting better and better, the gold standard of top vinyl continues to get better too. so when i do compare this digital with my 'GREAT' turntable, please don't be disappointed if the relative performance has not really changed much.....and the best vinyl has still more musical goodness.

as i see it, each format approaching it's own ideal is good for everyone. digital is now so good whether it ever equals of surpasses the best vinyl is not really important.

 

[Kris]

I'm not aware of any listening comparisons with the Pink Faun 2.16x as yet. There's so little info on the unit

I have one and would be happy to offer it for comparisons to any other the listed units above.

Pink Faun hasn't found a way to eliminate the use of OCXO internal clocks as yet like in the Extreme. In fact they are pushing deeper into clock tech as seen in their recent announcements

I hope someone with Taiko extereme will be best to compare it.
Or some of our Asian friends might have both Taiko extreme and Wadax Atlantis.
Than shipping the pink faun 2.16x would meke a great sense.

Some also have W20 with moded clock attached and this also plays well regardless it is very old design. There is no successor in plans ?

Is someone going to perform the „top servers” review ?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hello All,

I received my demonstration Daiza from Emile first thing this morning.

The packaging and finish of the product are absolutely first class. My goodness, Tankwood (Panzerholz) isn’t bulletproof for nothing - the weight feels similar to granite of similar dimensions lol.

I inserted this under the NVO Spa II SE phonostage. Incredible results achieved immediately with an overall gain in solidity across all frequencies with deeper insight and deeper textured bass. Amazingly things to be bedding in with some changes over time - seem to be gaining resolution and decay. No idea how such changes occur but can only surmise that as vibrational energy within a product drains out slowly, it reaches a steady state? Maybe Emile can weigh in.

Anyway - I put my money where my mouth is and ordered for all my Mayer amps. I am looking to commission a monster for the Vyger too lol.

Emile - feel free to share this post somewhere else - I don’t want to contaminate your SGM Extreme thread but wasn’t sure where else to post.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Congrats Bill. If my experience is anything to go by, the more you get yr components' synergy right, the more things like Daizas work, and more, and vice versa too.

Structure governs function/function governs structure, interchangeably.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hello All,

I received my demonstration Daiza from Emile first thing this morning.

The packaging and finish of the product are absolutely first class. My goodness, Tankwood (Panzerholz) isn’t bulletproof for nothing - the weight feels similar to granite of similar dimensions lol.

I inserted this under the NVO Spa II SE phonostage. Incredible results achieved immediately with an overall gain in solidity across all frequencies with deeper insight and deeper textured bass. Amazingly things to be bedding in with some changes over time - seem to be gaining resolution and decay. No idea how such changes occur but can only surmise that as vibrational energy within a product drains out slowly, it reaches a steady state? Maybe Emile can weigh in.

Anyway - I put my money where my mouth is and ordered for all my Mayer amps. I am looking to commission a monster for the Vyger too lol.

Emile - feel free to share this post somewhere else - I don’t want to contaminate your SGM Extreme thread but wasn’t sure where else to post.

Hi Bill,

There's no thread dedicated to the Daiza platforms so here is fine. The changes over time are indeed a very interesting phenomenon, and I believe it's a part of any component burn in behaviour in general. If you remove and re insert the platform you will observe a similar (though less pronounced) effect all over again. Therefor it has to be a function of mechanical settling. One of our clients once commented when testing a platform under different components: "I'm swapping them out like Indiana Jones" .

 

[Esotar]

Hello All,

I received my demonstration Daiza from Emile first thing this morning.

The packaging and finish of the product are absolutely first class. My goodness, Tankwood (Panzerholz) isn’t bulletproof for nothing - the weight feels similar to granite of similar dimensions lol.

I inserted this under the NVO Spa II SE phonostage. Incredible results achieved immediately with an overall gain in solidity across all frequencies with deeper insight and deeper textured bass. Amazingly things to be bedding in with some changes over time - seem to be gaining resolution and decay. No idea how such changes occur but can only surmise that as vibrational energy within a product drains out slowly, it reaches a steady state? Maybe Emile can weigh in.

Anyway - I put my money where my mouth is and ordered for all my Mayer amps. I am looking to commission a monster for the Vyger too lol.

Emile - feel free to share this post somewhere else - I don’t want to contaminate your SGM Extreme thread but wasn’t sure where else to post.

DAIZA and TANA are separate products of Taiko Audio.

But I think they are the essential options of SGM Extreme.

Taiko Audio's Setchi grounding boxes too.

If you have plan to use SGM 2015 EVO or Extreme, you have to use Setchi and DAIZA or TANA.

I use Setchi D-3 Lan type, USB type, and DAIZA with SGM Extreme and EVO.

They make SGM much more better music server.

Highly recommended~!!!!

 

[Samsoum]

Well at the moment I can not open my checkbook. After the purchase of the Kassandra I wait for some time before I can open it again
I told Pedro, but he seems to want to plant with enough time. Smart guy.

Hi nonesup,
My kassandra will arrive hopefully mid april and my budget for a streamer is around 4,5 € k.
I m interested on your experience and tests in this regards.
My list consists of : pink faun 2.16, innuos mk2 se, paul pang fc10 or a budget nuci7+sotm200+ lps.
I ve been told that kassandra don t need esoteric streamer and a clean usb in signal is sufficient.
Please keep in touch.
Regards

 

[nonesup]

Hi Samsoum.
I have not had any communication with the distributor that was going to bring the Statement and Wadax to test them. I'll call him next week to see how the issue goes with the Statement (if it's repaired).
Regarding the Kassandra, just tell him that I do not understand the opinions on that he does not need a good server. No matter how good the DAC is, if the data it receives is not "good", it can not give the best of itself. Another thing is that you have been told that you do not need (even Stavros and others believe that it worsens) data that is not in its native resolution. In that I would not spend a penny.

 

[justubes]

There's something more to this then meets the eye.

This particular client is using an Aurender W20 with an external 10MHz clock reference, 0.05ppb, 130dB/10Hz phase noise. 1hz not specified but an educated guess puts that the range 110-115dB (not counting cherry picking).

He auditioned the EVO initially but was not entirely satisfied.
Subsequently forum member Esotar lent his Extreme to him which did satisfy him, in fact he wants to order one.

The reason I'm mentioning this is, the EVO is using a 24MHz OCXO which can never match the specifications of purposely built 10MHz references, it's easily 15-20dB worse at 1Hz. Now you can use a 10MHz XO and a multiplier, but unfortunately that has its downsides as well. This is why we spend so much time finding a way bypassing the "need" for an OCXO in the Extreme. Internal clock quality is irrelevant in the Extreme (as it should be for a server). As a bonus, we get significantly better performance out of the whole package.

Now please don't get me wrong, I am absolutely not stating that XO quality is irrelevant, it most certainly is very important, just not in the Extreme. We are investigating options for native 10MHz clocked USB / Ethernet solutions. If this turns out to provide us with something elevating performance even further, it will be made available in the form of a PCIe expansion card. However, cherry picked XO's do come with a considerable price tag and are not available in large quantities.

While on the subject, it's interesting to mention that a 0.015 g2/Hz vibration level has about a 30-40dB negative impact on phase noise up to about 1000Hz.

Am i right to conclude that there is certain benefits from using 10m references to devices which a specific ocxo like 24mhz or 25mhz cannot provide sonically.

This may be the resons why the customer performing the shootout between the w20 and Evo possibly encountered.

This is solved in the Extreme? Doing away with ocxo for the usb or ethernet, but possibly retested and will be offered with a 10mhz master clcok option?

Will this still not require the 24 and 25 mhz ocxo to be incorperated if the 10m master becomes an option.

I am keen in the Extreme and certainly sounds that if the 10mhz referenced boards come to reality, this woukd be the most comprehensive solution in the maket in the quest of the ultimate and extremely tweaked server.

Please elaborate further.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Am i right to conclude that there is certain benefits from using 10m references to devices which a specific ocxo like 24mhz or 25mhz cannot provide sonically.

Yes.

This may be the resons why the customer performing the shootout between the w20 and Evo possibly encountered.

That is certainly possible. It is worth noting the original SGM2015 was preferred over the W20 standalone on many prior occasions. And as this was the EVO, it would make sense the 10M reference was responsible for the difference. In fact we are currently redesigning the EVO to be able to use our "clock-less" technology.

This is solved in the Extreme? Doing away with ocxo for the usb or ethernet, but possibly retested and will be offered with a 10mhz master clcok option?

Yes, unfortunately I cannot elaborate on the exact mechanism as I really do not want to give it away, we spend several months with long days to get it done. What we are working on now is to see if we can get a benefit from 10M references in the Mutec REF10 or even Cybershaft OP20 range.

Will this still not require the 24 and 25 mhz ocxo to be incorperated if the 10m master becomes an option.

There are several ways to get 24/25M from 10M, however it is all detrimental to the final result. We probably need a 10M native solution which is "a challenge" to say the least.

I am keen in the Extreme and certainly sounds that if the 10mhz referenced boards come to reality, this woukd be the most comprehensive solution in the maket in the quest of the ultimate and extremely tweaked server.

Please elaborate further.

The thing here is we may very well end up never using XO replacements in our servers anymore. As previously stated we have discovered an alternative approach to XO "upgrading" with which we get different results. The Extreme sounds different to other servers including our own EVO. It is worth noting that we have extensively auditioned several vinyl playback systems while developing the Extreme. It was "voiced" relative to vinyl playback systems. And apparently this was noticed recently by the same Korean audiophile group comparing the EVO and Extreme to the W20 + 10M reference and the Laufer Memory Player. I will quote a section from naver.com where this is published (run through google translate) in the next post as I suspect it may be too long for this one.