Lampizator announcement: launch of our all new TOTL HORIZON DAC

[wisnon]

I have to admit that the joy of owning a Horizon does not wane. I have had mine since early february and it never ceases to produce a smile on my face during every listening session. I continue to hear things that I didn't hear with my Pacific. My Horizon has yet to even hiccup the wrong way. It's built like a Sherman tank and for most I'm betting will be end game as it is just that good.

I am curious as to colors everyone chose. I see a myriad of different colors leaving Poland for their final destination but am I wrong to assume that the Copper top is still the most produced Horizon.

I am enjoying mine so much that the analog side of my system has fallen into disuse as I continue to find and enjoy new music on the digital side of my system. AS always, kudos to Master Yoda

Do u have a dedicated CDT? curious to hear if so, what do special CDs sound like through it feeding the Horizon? I mean Gold CDs, XRCD, K2, UHQCD, HDCD, Black vinyl CDs, Zenph CDs, SBM, SHM, AudioNautes recordings etc...
Also, if you use RJ45, cdmi, Aes/ebu or RCA/BNC spdif. Lampi uses psAudio standard for i2S. Rau gets great results with his Jazs CDT and custom RJ45 connection using killer disks.

 

[Steve Williams]

FYI, the CD I'm using for burn-in is track 10 on Christion McBride's "gettin' to it". This was suggested to me long ago by Albert VonSchweikert. It works like a charm with lots of plucked bass and other dynamics. I can feed it to the Horizon at level 63 and not have anything going to the speakers

Track 10 of that CD is "Night Train". Is that the track Albert recommended?

 

[kernelbob]

Track 10 of that CD is "Night Train". Is that the track Albert recommended?

Yes, the last track on the CD.

 

[wisnon]

All this time the song I was thinking of was: Winter Games - Chris Walden Big Band

 

[kernelbob]

I have a collection of Herbies Tube Dampers that I've accumulated over the years. For each of the four KT88's I have one at the center of the main vertical cylinder and a smaller one on the top dome nestled at the curvature to the larger section. Each 6SN7 globe has one at the equator. I'm using one on the shoulder of the 274 rectifier.

The tube dampers definitely helped to clean up the sound with better focus, more instrumental detail, clearer isolation of instruments, etc.

Up to this point I was adding the tube dampers from the top, not requiring the Horizon to be shut down. That made is easy to quickly compare bare versus damped. I decided to add a damper at the base of the tubes. I started with the rectifier (I know that it "shouldn't" make a difference). I rolled the damper up the black base so it would settle between the glass and the base. Then powered up the DAC.

Well, was I surprised! Focus, instrumental clarity, dynamics, even depth was improved. The volume begged to go louder. No, damping the base didn't reduce the volume, it was cleaner without losing any detail.

Naturally, I added the dampers to the base of the other tubes, starting with the 6SN7 globes. There was some improvement, but nothing like the improvement from adding a damper to the base of the rectifier. Adding dampers to the bases of the KT88's helped incrementally, but again, nothing like damping the rectifier.

I don't know why damping the base of the rectifier has such an impact, but the improvement was not subtle. Go figure.

 

[marty]

Continuing to immerse myself in the Horizon's magic. On topic of resonance...
I had used two thick HRS plates on my Pacific to damp resonance to a decent effect. The chassis remained stiff and the robust RK KR 242s did not vibrate, at least I could not tell by touch.

Was curious how I may be able to damp the Horizon should there be resonance on the recessed top plate.

I noticed last night when I gently touch the top plate during decent volume playback (~85db), there is very noticeable vibration (airborne resonance?) on the plate as well as the tubes themselves (the chassis is dead quiet, as are the other components on my rack). Spent some hours last night and today experimenting with various size HRS plates.

I have found the attached combo reduces the resonances, particularly on the front part of the plate - one small and one larger HRS plate on either side - 11.4 lbs total. (A tweak after the 1st picture: The larger one is now fully loaded onto the smaller and does not rest on chassis at all. This shown in pic 2.) This arrangement also reduces the vibration in the pentode and dual triode tubes quite noticeably. The rectifier seems less sensitive and barely seems to vibrate to the touch in either scenario.

None of the holes in the top plate around the tubes are covered.

I have not ordered tube dampers to date until I start settling on a tube set.

As for SQ, I am still experimenting but I sense cleaner transients, when called for, and greater dynamics with the plates. Any other observations on this topic? Should the vibrations in the top plate effect SQ in this case? I am imagining/hoping the airborne resonances should be a non issue as the plate likely is totally isolated from the tubes, but based on the damping, this does not appear to be the case… and less tube vibration likely a good thing. It would be a shame to cover the top plate, even partially... and I cannot move my rack/Horizon elsewhere. That said, looks (and sounds) good to me! Thanks everyone.

I am surprised that it took so long for this issue to be reported. I'm still sorting out tube complements on the Horizon but I have to admit I was very disappointed in the quality of the construction as it pertains to the top plate. Many of us reported using custom modifications to damp the top plate on the GG2 and I was told the Horizon would have no such issues. Yet when I tap my fingers on the top plate, it rattles like a washing machine, thus mandating the need for damping. Frankly I think Lukasz should be somewhat embarrassed. If he wants to learn how to damp a chassis, he should look at any piece of Shunyata gear, even the inexpensive pieces, as they do this exceedingly well.

As audiophiles we go through great effort to minimize vibrations...any vibration. We use ridiculously priced footers and tube rings, and mega buck shelves and racks. And countless room accoutrements to tame resonance and vibrations. And after we have done all these things, Lukasz delivers a product that rattles like crazy to a finger tap on the top plate. I almost blew out my eardrums from using my stethoscope on the plate. I urge you to try it yourself. It's particularly disappointing because the entire frame of the unit is incredibly solid and vibration free to any finger tapping. But the top plate? Ouch. Maybe it's just me, but that construction quality is hardly impressive. Fortunately, damping the plate doesn't appear to be a sonic detriment however my unit is in a closed cabinet on constrained layer stainless steel shelving with CMS footers that could probably survive Chernobyl. (I'd be more concerned if it was in an open rack.) Still, it seems sensible to eliminate a potential problem especially when it can be done inexpensively during manufacturing or post production. I'll get past this as damping the top plate is easy it but this is hardly what I expected in a 50K product.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

I am surprised that it took so long for this issue to be reported. I'm still sorting out tube complements on the Horizon but I have to admit I was very disappointed in the quality of the construction as it pertains to the top plate. Many of us reported using custom modifications to damp the top plate on the GG2 and I was told the Horizon would have no such issues. Yet when I tap my fingers on the top plate, it rattles like a washing machine, thus mandating the need for damping. Frankly I think Lukasz should be somewhat embarrassed. If he wants to learn how to damp a chassis, he should look at any piece of Shunyata gear, even the inexpensive pieces, as they do this exceedingly well.

As audiophiles we go through great effort to minimize vibrations...any vibration. We use ridiculously priced footers and tube rings, and mega buck shelves and racks. And countless room accoutrements to tame resonance and vibrations. And after we have done all these things, Lukasz delivers a product that rattles like crazy to a finger tap on the top plate. I almost blew out my eardrums from using my stethoscope on the plate. I urge you to try it yourself. It's particularly disappointing because the entire frame of the unit is incredibly solid and vibration free to any finger tapping. But the top plate? Ouch. Maybe it's just me, but that construction quality is hardly impressive. Fortunately, damping the plate doesn't appear to be a sonic detriment however my unit is in a closed cabinet on constrained layer stainless steel shelving with CMS footers that could probably survive Chernobyl. (I'd be more concerned if it was in an open rack.) Still, it seems sensible to eliminate a potential problem especially when it can be done inexpensively during manufacturing or post production. I'll get past this as damping the top plate is easy it but this is hardly what I expected in a 50K product.

I am quite convinced, that the chassis of the Horizon is one of, if not THE most solid build product in the industry as far as DACS are concerned. The top plate is only a dust cover, it doesnt support anything, it doesnt touch the tubes or any electronic circuit. All elements are mounted to the floor plate which is one inch slab od aero grade aluminium. The dust cover is only there to protect from touching high voltage PCB. Its vibrations are unimportant, and even if they exist, the vibrations coming to the tube bodies themselves are two orders of magnitude bigger. If I felt that this has any significance - I would make the dust cover thicker at the risk of crossing the treshold of DHL / UPS air cargo requirement for palett thus costing 1000 dollars more to ship. Anyway, most people dont tap on equipment while listening - what else could excite these vibrations to be audibly bothersome? Anyhow, it bothers me that you are unhappy about it so I offer to send you a thicker plate for a direct 1:1 swap. So we can put this issue to rest.

 

[marty]

I am quite convinced, that the chassis of the Horizon is one of, if not THE most solid build product in the industry as far as DACS are concerned. The top plate is only a dust cover, it doesnt support anything, it doesnt touch the tubes or any electronic circuit. All elements are mounted to the floor plate which is one inch slab od aero grade aluminium. The dust cover is only there to protect from touching high voltage PCB. Its vibrations are unimportant, and even if they exist, the vibrations coming to the tube bodies themselves are two orders of magnitude bigger. If I felt that this has any significance - I would make the dust cover thicker at the risk of crossing the treshold of DHL / UPS air cargo requirement for palett thus costing 1000 dollars more to ship. Anyway, most people dont tap on equipment while listening - what else could excite these vibrations to be audibly bothersome? Anyhow, it bothers me that you are unhappy about it so I offer to send you a thicker plate for a direct 1:1 swap. So we can put this issue to rest.

Lukasz, I appreciate your concern and willingness to swap out the top plate for something heavier. But honestly, the problem is largely easily solved by putting some 2" round sorbothane discs on the top plate. (one could add some small weights in addition depending on your degree of comfort). I totally agree about the chassis being extremely solid as I mentioned, which was why I found the top plate inconsistent with that caliber of construction.

 

[dminches]

Lukasz, I appreciate your concern and willingness to swap out the top plate for something heavier. But honestly, the problem is largely easily solved by putting some 2" round sorbothane discs on the top plate. (one could add some small weights in addition depending on your degree of comfort). I totally agree about the chassis being extremely solid as I mentioned, which was why I found the top plate inconsistent with that caliber of construction.

Marty, where would you out the discs?

 

[Steve Williams]

I am quite convinced, that the chassis of the Horizon is one of, if not THE most solid build product in the industry as far as DACS are concerned. The top plate is only a dust cover, it doesnt support anything, it doesnt touch the tubes or any electronic circuit. All elements are mounted to the floor plate which is one inch slab od aero grade aluminium. The dust cover is only there to protect from touching high voltage PCB. Its vibrations are unimportant, and even if they exist, the vibrations coming to the tube bodies themselves are two orders of magnitude bigger. If I felt that this has any significance - I would make the dust cover thicker at the risk of crossing the treshold of DHL / UPS air cargo requirement for palett thus costing 1000 dollars more to ship. Anyway, most people dont tap on equipment while listening - what else could excite these vibrations to be audibly bothersome? Anyhow, it bothers me that you are unhappy about it so I offer to send you a thicker plate for a direct 1:1 swap. So we can put this issue to rest.

I suppose it’s safe to say none of us listen with stethoscopes.IMO the Horizon is the finest DACs in production. I was told when Lukasz was here that the top serves as a dust cover. Let’s not make a mountain out of a mole hill. There is no issue here

 

[Whbgarrett]

Lukasz, I appreciate your concern and willingness to swap out the top plate for something heavier. But honestly, the problem is largely easily solved by putting some 2" round sorbothane discs on the top plate. (one could add some small weights in addition depending on your degree of comfort). I totally agree about the chassis being extremely solid as I mentioned, which was why I found the top plate inconsistent with that caliber of construction.

Curious whether you hear any difference when dampening the top plate/dust cover and listening through your speakers? Lukasz seems to suggest that is not likely to be the case because any vibration of that plate would not transmit to any signal carrying part of the DAC.

 

[Holli82]

Track 10 of that CD is "Night Train". Is that the track Albert recommended?

That's the one Steve. I am using it right now to break-in my Takatsuki 274. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Argonaut]

IMO the Horizon is the finest DACs in production.

Steve , have you experienced the LampizatOr Horizon or the Aries Cerat Homerus DACS ?

 

[Willgolf]

I have tried finding Christion McBride on Tidal and Qobuz and nothing shows up. It is spelled right or would it show up with another name?

 

[kernelbob]

In my system I'm feeding the output of my Horizon through a passive controller. I've compared how the two perform at max volume and as the level is reduced. Test 1 was running my Horizon at max and using the controller for attenuation. Test 2 was setting my controller to a high level (little or no attenuation) and used the Horizon level attenuator.

I found that in each setup, there's a point where the sound starts to lose some power, punch, fine detail, etc. I expect this is true of all devices at some amount of attenuation. The bottom line in my system is that the passive controller maintains the quality of the sound at deeper amounts of attenuation (very low volumes) than the Horizon. So, I keep the Horizon level at the 63 setting. This isn't meant at all as a knock on the Horizon. Every instrument has its ideal settings.

So, in my system, the Horizon always displays the 63 level indicator. In lieu of a "Display on/off" button on the unit or remote, I wanted a way to at least make the orange 63 not be visible-- it's pretty bright in a darkened listening room. I scrounged through my ever growing archive of parts debris. Lo and behold I found a great solution. From an old car radar windshield mount, I removed the two black suction cups. They're 1 1/4 inches in diameter and the they fit perfectly over the 63 display. They're very slightly wider than each display opening which allows the edges to be gently tucked into the front panel openings. They look to be purpose-designed for the Horizon.

If anyone is interested, here's a link to similar suction cups. These appear to be less than 1 mm smaller than what I'm using, but may still work.

https://www.amazon.com/BSCX6-pieces-Suction-Beltronics-Detectors/dp/B07GMYFYVG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=32R60RYILDTNV&keywords=radar+detector+suction+cup+black&qid=1658352508&s=automotive&sprefix=radar+detector+suction+cup+black%2Cautomotive%2C58&sr=1-5

 

[Ed.P]

I have tried finding Christion McBride on Tidal and Qobuz and nothing shows up. It is spelled right or would it show up with another name?

Qobuz

Discover the Christian McBride playlist containing all the essential tracks in Hi-Res 24-bit for an unequalled sound quality (FLAC 24-Bit / 192kHz)

www.qobuz.com

https://tidal.com/browse/artist/14128

 

[Steve Williams]

In my system I'm feeding the output of my Horizon through a passive controller. I've compared how the two perform at max volume and as the level is reduced. Test 1 was running my Horizon at max and using the controller for attenuation. Test 2 was setting my controller to a high level (little or no attenuation) and used the Horizon level attenuator.

I found that in each setup, there's a point where the sound starts to lose some power, punch, fine detail, etc. I expect this is true of all devices at some amount of attenuation. The bottom line in my system is that the passive controller maintains the quality of the sound at deeper amounts of attenuation (very low volumes) than the Horizon. So, I keep the Horizon level at the 63 setting. This isn't meant at all as a knock on the Horizon. Every instrument has its ideal settings.

So, in my system, the Horizon always displays the 63 level indicator. In lieu of a "Display on/off" button on the unit or remote, I wanted a way to at least make the orange 63 not be visible-- it's pretty bright in a darkened listening room. I scrounged through my ever growing archive of parts debris. Lo and behold I found a great solution. From an old car radar windshield mount, I removed the two black suction cups. They're 1 1/4 inches in diameter and the they fit perfectly over the 63 display. They're very slightly wider than each display opening which allows the edges to be gently tucked into the front panel openings. They look to be purpose-designed for the Horizon.

If anyone is interested, here's a link to similar suction cups. These appear to be less than 1 mm smaller than what I'm using, but may still work.

https://www.amazon.com/BSCX6-pieces-Suction-Beltronics-Detectors/dp/B07GMYFYVG/ref=sr_1_5?crid=32R60RYILDTNV&keywords=radar+detector+suction+cup+black&qid=1658352508&s=automotive&sprefix=radar+detector+suction+cup+black%2Cautomotive%2C58&sr=1-5

I only play mine with the Horizon at 63, which is bypass mode. So basically passing the entire signal to my preamp which I use to adjust gain

 

[kernelbob]

I only play mine with the Horizon at 63, which is bypass mode. So basically passing the entire signal to my preamp which I use to adjust gain

I'm using the same configuration. Horizon at 63 all the time. Attenuation by my controller (Tortuga LDRxB). The output of my Horizon is sufficient to not need an active preamp to add gain.

 

[rspyder]

Yes, Fred is a great guy

I've never been successful in reaching Fred. I always end up getting Rob. Does Fred have a direct email?
As for trading up - well - I'm still waiting for that supposed opportunity. I have a Pacific and I put a deposit down on the Horizon over 3 months ago and - well - crickets.
I saw Lukasz at the Munich High End Show, but he was extremely vague about production numbers and delivery schedules for the Horizon. The latest news is that Lampi is selling to new customers first before getting around to loyal existing owners looking to trade-up. That policy or practice is not mentioned on the Lampizator site. Has anyone with a Pacific traded up and received the Horizon? I haven't found any so I thought I'd check here.

 

[Whbgarrett]

I've never been successful in reaching Fred. I always end up getting Rob. Does Fred have a direct email?
As for trading up - well - I'm still waiting for that supposed opportunity. I have a Pacific and I put a deposit down on the Horizon over 3 months ago and - well - crickets.
I saw Lukasz at the Munich High End Show, but he was extremely vague about production numbers and delivery schedules for the Horizon. The latest news is that Lampi is selling to new customers first before getting around to loyal existing owners looking to trade-up. That policy or practice is not mentioned on the Lampizator site. Has anyone with a Pacific traded up and received the Horizon? I haven't found any so I thought I'd check here.

I, and many other members of this forum, traded in a Pacific toward a Horizon